Hooked on Growth: Tim Brown’s Approach to Marketing That Scales
0:00 Introduction to Digital Marketing for Contractors
5:43 Tim Brown's Journey to Starting Hook Agency
8:32 The Future of SEO and Digital Marketing
14:12 Biggest Mistakes Contractors Make Online
21:42 The Power of Branding for Contractors
27:02 How Small Contractors Can Compete Online
29:53 Growing a Business: Lessons from Scaling
39:17 Episode Wrap-Up and Contact Information
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What's up, lemonheads? Welcome to another episode of From the Yellow Chair. I'm Crystal and I cannot wait to talk about digital marketing today because, contractors, I know what you're thinking is I hate digital marketing, but listen, it's one of the most complex and the most, I think, one of the biggest trigger things that most contractors deal with, at least that's who's coming to Lemon Seed. But I'm here to tell you there are some great agencies out there and I'm going to talk to one of them today who not only do I love their own marketing strategy, but I love what they do. My personal roofing company is utilizing them. So, guys, it's going to be a great conversation, digging in to listen to how he grew his company, the things that they are doing to be fantastic for the trades, his company, the things that they are doing to be fantastic for the trades. So you're definitely going to want to sit down, grab a seat or put it on cruise control, whatever you're doing right now, because we are really going to dig down deep into digital marketing today.
Speaker 1:0:56
So, joining me today in the virtual lemonade stand is Tim Brown, which I call you Tim Hook all the time, which is fine, but he is the CEO of Hook Agency, a digital marketing powerhouse company that I think and he may correct me here in a second but kind of really got his vibe going in the roofing industry. Now he's moved into almost all home services, doing really great websites and SEO, killer content, great looks, things that are converting. So, Tim, I know you're all about giving tradespeople and contractors the tools they need, so tell me a little bit about yourself. Like why should any of my listeners care what you have to say today?
Speaker 2:1:45
yeah, I think our difference as far as like being on podcasts and stuff like like this and why to listen, is I generally try to give everything I possibly can away. I'm never I'm not the, the guy that tries to withhold secrets. So I might say a bunch of the stuff that we do that's excellent, but I'm also going to try to give you tips on how to do it. As far as hook agencies, je ne sais quoi, if you will, it's kind of a consistent pursuit of excellence and that means sometimes pushing into the scary parts like what is roi on marketing, and like being kind of fearless and pushing in and like, really, if it's, if the roi is not good, we're going to look at it and we get really kind of diligent on on looking at what's paying and what's not with marketing and yeah well, we uh, we've kind of.
Speaker 2:2:45
Lastly, we've been in the trenches, we've been, we've, you know, I've been on roofs installing roofs. I've we've uh been out on job sites with installing hvac units and and water heaters and different things. I'm trying to really actually understand what's the actual value being provided to homeowners and why is a company special at the very core of it and sometimes sometimes I've zoomed in and felt what we could do better too, which you and I were just talking about on our podcast, about yeah sometimes marketers job is to actually help upgrade the service, which is it's a it's a real thing.
Speaker 2:3:30
But our difference is kind of being in the trenches and um, being niched and and looking at the ROI even if it's bad, and getting getting fearless.
Speaker 1:3:41
Yeah, you know, living Seed sits in that same kind of boat. You know, I come from the trades, so I mean I came from literally working inside of my family's heating and air conditioning company and just we added plumbing and I went through acquisitions, and so you know, when you live down in the trenches and or at least you've attempted to be exposed to what their everyday life looks like, the more we know about the services that our clients provide, the better we can articulate the messaging and the positioning, and there's really a lot of power in that. So I'm super happy to hear you say that, because you know, I know there's a lot of great agencies in the space for the digital side, the website side, and for a lot of contractors. When I ask them like, tell me about your marketing strategy, the first thing they list out is their digital provider, which a lot of times is a great company. But when I can really separate what I would say the men from the boys, it's when I'm listening to vendors who are actually seeking to understand what the homeowner is going through and what the contractor has to do to provide those needs, and so I love to hear that.
Speaker 1:4:49
Well, I know that you yourself have like this personal journey. If I understood right, you were like a designer. Until now you're an agency owner. So how did you get started with the agency, like, how did you decide this is what you needed to do?
Speaker 2:5:03
Yeah, I think, like you know, dreamed in college. I kind of I wanted to have this. I just didn't know that you were allowed to go out on your own directly out of college. I kind of wish I had at the time, you know, but I went and worked for somebody else, uh, and I kind of learned. I learned a bunch of stuff that I'm glad I learned. So I'm kind of, I guess I'm glad I went out and worked for a different agency and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:5:28
But I dreamed of, I dreamed of a place where I could be like just wild, like a lot of creativity, right. And I think originally I, like you know, when you're little, do you ever, when you're little, make like a diagram of your ideal mansion? Did you ever do that? I don't know if they do that in Texas, we did it in a little church in Minnesota. We'd be sketching our weird big mansion that we wanted to have one day, with a water slide from the bedroom.
Speaker 2:5:59
And I think, like when I was in college, I kind of diagrammed what I'd want my office to look like and it was gonna have a video space and a music space and just different kind of components. And so I dreamt big and I think, um, now you know, even though we only have a, you know, here, there a guitar, we don't actually have like a music studio, which was part of dream A lot of the other things have become, have come true, where we're doing this kind of more intense creativity, and it's it's a kind of a more fun environment. I think it's that's one of the best parts about an agency, and having an agency is like creating a fun environment where everyone's kind of being creative together and coming up with wild, crazy ideas. So that's what I like about just having a business like this.
Speaker 1:6:53
Yeah, well, you know when kind of the same thing, like you knew, you probably could help contractors really tackle one of the biggest hurdles. So, just in digital, when limited, helping contractors figure out a strategy for how to organize their marketing spend. You know, of course a large chunk of that goes toward digital and so there's such a need for it, and I encourage clients all the time like you should interview these different agencies before you just sign on to one. So you know, just because 50 people recommend them on social media does not mean there's not some great ones out there, but one of the things that I think people would enjoy about watching you guys.
Speaker 1:7:31
You have your own vibe. It's very much like I mentioned to you the other day, like a navigator style, like someone walking you along through all the steps of onboarding with Hook and things like that. So I think there's just so much power in what you're saying really trying to understand, dreaming big and doing things that really you know help the contractor at the end of the day. But every great business starts with solving like real problems, and I think that you really found your niche there with niche there, with contractors needing leads and a good digital thing. So well, let's get into the meat of websites and SEO and all of that good stuff and I know you and I talked the other day like a good brand is great and definitely will help other things perform better. But let's get down in the weeds a little bit about. Maybe, if I can talk with you about your strategy for actual conversions on seo, like where do you think we're headed um for search engine optimization and things like that right now.
Speaker 2:8:37
Where are we headed? Hmm, kind of a little bit into the it's. It's unclear at the moment how long into the future SEO is going to be a viable strategy, I think. I think that it's a. You know, look at the, the AI things, the, the AI overviews, the zeroclick searches and things like that I think is stealing some market share as far as the ability to just crank up traffic really quickly and things like that. I think it makes it more competitive for the things that are there. It is interesting. I mean, google traffic is still growing, you know. Apparently it grew like 21 or the amount of searches grew about like 21% this last year. It's not slowing down. It seems like just there's more and more people. That it's. You know, digital is life kind of thing, but I think it becomes more difficult. I think that SEO, as far as clear, like having complete clarity or the ability to like, yeah, to predict, I think it's, I think it's my, my ability to predict is probably lower than it's been in ever. On us, yeah.
Speaker 1:10:08
So your answer and even your hesitation a little bit there is because, man, I don't think anybody really knows. Everybody's making their best guess at this and you're right with the oncoming of AI. So you know AIO, automated, you know artificial intelligence, optimization, search engine optimization. Here's the hard part for contractors. You just have to be out there. You have to be willing to do a lot of things to see what works and see what's going. If you're looking for this magic bullet that you're going to call any marketer, they're going to say, man, if you are doing this, you're going to grow your company. Give me $10,000. All of you would do it. That's just not how easy it is.
Speaker 1:10:49
And so what? I think the learned lesson here should be that it is a necessary evil, so trusting your digital provider to do some of those strategies to keep you at the top of whatever's changing. You can always pivot as things happen. But between Google and putting out new algorithms all the time and new updates and all their stuff, with AI constantly changing and becoming even more of a, to me, I love it. It's like a headache and a blessing at the same time. But also there's still a lot of impact with that core pieces.
Speaker 2:11:22
Yeah, I think one thing is the note is like so when people are coming from zero to try to get those first like hundred or a thousand clicks a month, you know what I mean. That part is scarier because you you actually have to go pretty hard for SEO. I think, honestly, that's the that's a huge thing is you have to go harder than you've ever had to go to get those first thousand clicks a month, versus, like, for a company that has a thousand clicks a month. What are we willing to do for the next few thousand? I think that that's an easier spot to be because you already know that you have 20 leads or 30 leads from SEO already. I think that that's an easier place to double down and I think it's an easier place to actually make money is to double down on things. I think that's why you see seasoned business owners saying I want to invest quite a bit of money into SEO is because they already see 20, 30 leads coming from that direction. I think that, like, honestly, that's a little bit more common for us, like the, the absolute from scratch SEO right now, like business owners trying to do that. I think our thing is too expensive, just to be honest and it's the truth is. The truth is, is that SEO is you have to go hard to win, so people that are scared to go hard to win Yesterday we talked about how scared money don't make money, and I think knowing your lead sources and then doubling down on the ones that work is always a good strategy.
Speaker 2:13:05
Whether it's, you know, like, if it's lsa or it's google ads or it's google maps or it's traditional seo, it's recognized like and I think of. I think part of the thing is I don't even consider us just an seo provider. I really think of us as like, well, we're like helping people build leads, build leads and, um, so, as time goes on, like if that's seo, we are very aggressive, like we that's the option for seo that we have is very aggressive. And then we have all these other things on google and if, if a aeo, if, if, uh, chat, if AEO, if Chats and Petits gets ads, I promise you will be one of the first people to be on it, you know, and to be providing that service as well.
Speaker 1:13:56
Well, so, okay, so we've got the website, we've got the SEO. We know all those basic things right. We know we need to be there, we know we need to be at least like at the ring right, trying to get in there and box around, at least like at the ring right, trying to get in there and box around. But what do you think from a digital aspect, or some of the biggest mistakes that we're seeing home service contractors make when it comes to online marketing? Do you think it's like lack of budget? Is it just lack of understanding numbers? Where do you think we're getting in trouble?
Speaker 2:14:22
Not knowing your numbers is a big one Not knowing what to double down on because you haven't looked at lead sources, and not owning your marketing. Like to me, there's two ways to not own your marketing you don't know that you own your website, or you don't know if you own your website or not. You don't own your ad account. You don't own your analytics, you don't sign in, you don't look at your traffic. You don't sign in, you don't look at your traffic. And then, on the other side, you don't own your marketing in the way that you're buying leads. You're outsourcing everything. You're thinking that an outside company is going to save you, not creating a brand and not becoming. I think of people becoming the general contractor for their marketing, so to speak, right, like actually owning the process and then wielding these vendors. And I know that you guys help them own their marketing right and own it and take responsibility for it and stop trying.
Speaker 1:15:25
Well, we just know how hard.
Speaker 2:15:27
Yeah.
Speaker 1:15:27
Yeah, I mean, we just know how hard it is to actually organize and articulate a brand story and calls to action, all those things with these different providers. And so, you're right, like Living Seed is built specifically to do that and help build brands that build leads, that build legacies, that just keep building on things. And so I think the lesson that we're trying to learn here is you know, we see these contractors all the time and they'll start off with a terrible logo and a low budget and they're like man, make magic out of this. And you're like you're just, you're going to set yourself up. We were talking to even my own family, like we know, now we start off building a logo, building a tagline, getting our mascot, getting our jingle, getting our graphics together, because we know if we can just hit the gas, we're going to build, we're going to build momentum, and we roll over the top of competition.
Speaker 1:16:19
That's more scared or more reserved. Same thing with the roofing company that I'm a part of. She called me and said let's do something together. We said yes, and then I said, listen, scared money don't make money, so how much money do we got? And she was like well, let's, let's, let's get risky. So I mean there is something to be said, for you got to spend money to make money. There is no silver bullet, there is nothing that's going to be this magic button. It is everything independently is probably underperforming, but it's putting everything together that makes you know.
Speaker 1:16:54
We just released a podcast called 2 plus 2 equals 5. And that's because the sum of everything is much more impactful than each piece individually. So you know like right now, if you put all of your hope into digital marketing, you're going to be struggling because there's not a lot of demand. In Texas right now it's 70 degrees. For the two weeks of the year that it's going to be 70 degrees. And you know everybody's living their best life. They're not calling their HVAC company, you know. So I think that's a pretty common thought there.
Speaker 2:17:24
You know it's funny that you said that so boldly. I agree 100%. You know it's funny that you said that so boldly. I agree 100%. Everything by itself might seem like it's underperforming, and it's interesting because that's actually what I kind of look at, as I call it the five times rule, where it's like we want to hit the people five times in different ways and that's how it performs. Well, you know what I mean Individually by itself, because people don't take one piece of marketing in and then always become a customer. It's so many times where it's like that person now knows you from the five times that they saw you and then makes a decision to work with you. So, but I love that idea of like anyone could be unperforming but it doesn't mean that your overall marketing is not working. Yes, no.
Speaker 1:18:18
And honestly, that's what we flipping built this living seat on was man, you might have bits and pieces. A lot of people have all the puzzle pieces. They just don't know how. Have all the puzzle pieces, they just don't know how to put the puzzle together.
Speaker 1:18:31
So you know, I mean that's just a big piece there of what happens. Well, okay, you and I did have a great conversation about this as well. So you know Living Seeds really working hard to build more brands. So the graphic, like logos and band wraps and things like that it's one of our core functions. My business partner, emily that is her skill by trade Just a fantastic graphic designer, wonderful at casting a vision for true brands, and so you and I had a great conversation about how man those brands. No matter what you do, if you have a better, more memorable brand, your digital performance is going to be better.
Speaker 2:19:08
Yeah, I agree 100%. I think that I mean it's so funny because it's obvious that I believe that our logo one is intended to be iconic and be able to be transferred anywhere. Your guys' logo is really good. It just immediately has a feeling in the brain, has like a a feeling in the brain. You know, like our name is super short and punchy and it's easy to remember hookagencycom, yeah.
Speaker 2:19:36
but it's also I believe in brands so much that, like we're constantly doing things that literally are just to get people in, our ideal customers, to remember the logo. So we're constantly doing video putting the logo as a watermark on there. We're going to events I'm passing out waters where it's just the logo. So I believe in brands so much but for some reason it's kind of hard to fully get contractors on board. Home service businesses don't know sometimes if it's a way to sell them marketing. When people talk about brand, they think that maybe brand is a fluffy nonsense thing from Mad Men or something like that. But what we can all understand is reputation and what I think I really believe that's really hard to fully get people on board with sometimes is that you infuse your reputation into a symbol and like I think about the, the, the name of the beatles. Yeah, people didn't like the beatles if, if you didn't know all their music, the beatles is kind of a terrible band name actually.
Speaker 1:20:50
Yeah, correct.
Speaker 2:20:57
But we infuse our logo and name with all these great things. So I know contractors and home service business out there are obsessed with their reputation and doing great work. That carries on and spreads through word of mouth. If we can attach that to a symbol, that's iconic, that is just, that's just brand and it makes every lead cheaper, so as as we get more like clients that overlap between your, yours and our company and I think that it's building out that they want leads. I was just talking to our COO and we were talking about how we're not selling SEO, we're selling leads and winning. We're selling winning and leads. Right, that's what these guys want to buy. That's what people want to buy. They want to buy winning and it's hard to fully explain.
Speaker 1:21:48
They want to be a part what people want to buy. They want to buy a winning, and it's hard to fool. They want to be a part. People Contractors want to be a part of successful things. So, especially when you can let them see the vision of what you do now, with everything that you do and you your own company, and so when they can see that you're successful.
Speaker 1:22:03
So same thing with homeowners.
Speaker 1:22:05
You know, when homeowners are interacting with your brand on their customer journey and they see vans that are clean and sleek and modern, they see billboards that are, you know, trendy, maybe even, but definitely on brand and reiterating something, they make me feel something, whether it's laughter or like oh I never thought of that or just a traditional feel when I'm out at my kid's baseball game, do I see that you're a supporter of those things.
Speaker 1:22:32
Those are all things that I think contractors want to create. We need to create that and in return, we make ourselves more noticeable, we make ourselves more memorable and it becomes a definite differentiator between us and the person beside me. So, tim, I know that with branding, you know, like we were saying, everybody wants to be a part of things that are successful, companies that are successful. And so you know, when we see a contractor come to us with a solid brand, we love to see that, because we know that they're already going to be so many more steps ahead. There's so much more of a story that we can say, there's so many more unique spins that we can take on it for content writing and all of that. And I know that you've probably seen. The more memorable a brand is, the better they perform in their paid ads and all of those good things.
Speaker 2:23:23
Oh, absolutely yeah. I truly believe that if you're more memorable and distinct, right that every single piece of marketing that you put out will have a higher ROI and brand is not just the initial creation of the logo too. I think it's how you infuse your reputation and how you treat homeowners into the logo. So I was talking about, like theles is not really that great of a name. Actually I don't think if their music wasn't so magical that we wouldn't like that's a terrible name, actually, kind of. But because it's great, um, we infuse it and it's easy to remember. It's simple.
Speaker 2:24:13
So easy to remember and simple are such a big piece of this Cause. Otherwise, you got to say 10 things on your truck wraps and your and your billboards. You got to say this is the name, this is thecom, this is the phone number. You know you have to just get get into all these things, but if it's like clarity on what the name is, it's easy to remember and here's what we do, then we can find you. So that to me is like a big component of why all your marketing goes further, because I can recall just being able to recall a name.
Speaker 1:24:45
You know being able to just name them. So I say this all the time when I come in from you know soccer practice and I walk in and I open my front door and the heat just hits me. In July in Texas, I don't want to be thinking, man, I wish I knew who to call. I want everybody thinking I want to call the people with the roadrunner, I want to call the people with the dog. How do I get my name so much in front of people that they immediately think about me?
Speaker 2:25:12
Exactly, I agree, and I think, like you know, there's the the beauty of talking about the problems you solve too. We think about the name, but we, I think, like related to this is what we solve. So even when I'm marketing, a lot of times we market because we're niche, our company is niche and we're marketing to home service businesses. I just want them to remember to refer us, people to refer us to. I'm not always marketing for leads, I'm marketing for referrals, and so a lot of times I'll tell people hey, if somebody says they hate their website, we're a great referral. If somebody feels like they don't have clarity around what they're getting from their SEO company, we're a great referral.
Speaker 2:25:57
So it's like those problems too, and like reminding people of the problems that you solve and those are great headlines for billboards. Problems because problems kept like they grab our attention. And then when we remember, oh yeah, they said they they solve your mouse problem, or you know if it was pest control, or they said that they you know if your AC was leaking or you know, like basically, the ability to recall what problems does this company solve, I think is a great like additional thing beyond the name and the brand.
Speaker 1:26:33
Absolutely, absolutely, definitely, definitely. A lot to think through on that piece, but really it's not as hard as it sounds. It's more about getting contractors to buy into that way of thinking. Cause, definitely it's, it's. It's about contractors not being scared about all of those things so another thing that we get.
Speaker 1:26:53
We hear a lot from our contractors that might be on the smaller side. How do you think they even can compete with these large companies with online presence? Do you think that they should Like? What do you think? Let's pretend like I'm a small, you know, smaller than 2 million, smaller than $3 million contractor, really trying to get my online presence peaked up. What do you think are some?
Speaker 2:27:16
great places for me to start. Google business profile hands down is the best place to start. And yeah, because you can just get reviews, you know? And no, it's no, they aren't charging you to get reviews. It's it's hard to get those customers, but as you get those, if you think of it like every homeowner is going to review me, I'm going to figure out a way to get every homeowner to review me. You have so much opportunity right there. It's funny. Sometimes there will be a company that's been around for a while but they didn't prioritize reviews. You could right past them.
Speaker 1:27:52
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:27:53
Every single homeowner is just you've made it into a game. You say, hey, no matter what, even if we don't work on your system today, if I I'm able to give you a diagnosis here and give you clarity around the problem, I would love it if you'd be willing to give us a five-star review today. You know you can. You can. You don't have to have oh, I sold them an entire AC or entire roof or entire you can. You know, I was just talking to a roofer that was saying this is like he was saying if I'm going to get up on your roof and risk my life for this, I would love it If, by the end of this, even if we don't work with you, if you don't mind giving us five star review.
Speaker 2:28:32
There is reasons why, like, the value that you provide in your diagnosis is enough for a five star review. And yeah, people will say I've heard it before like they're, like I don't even know what they're doing over there. They got 500 reviews and I don't even. They've only been around for two years. They must be cheating. It's like.
Speaker 1:28:54
No, they're not, they're not cheating.
Speaker 2:28:55
They're asking, and they're like asking every homeowner every time, so most-.
Speaker 1:29:00
Yeah, and follow-ups. You know more than just one time, absolutely, absolutely. And you know people care so much about those things. And not only do people care in your community, your target market, but, heck, google's told you they care about reviews. So, like, just intentionally building out a strategy to help you get there. So start with Google business and then add on GLSA and then keep going for PPC or geofencing or geotargeting or retargeting, like get with your digital provider to create a layered plan and approach to get that Well, okay, so I love talking about that. One thing that I've been really impressed with you guys, and you specifically, is you know, tell me a little bit about how you grew, maybe Hook Agency, what were some things that you like struggled with when you were trying to scale? Or you know, what did it look like and what kind of advice would you give to a contractor trying to scale their own business?
Speaker 2:29:53
Yeah, I think it's the first couple of people, it's the hardest right and in my case I hired my wife and although there are drawbacks to that, I couldn't recommend it highly enough.
Speaker 2:30:05
It's just, it's a risky move, obviously, like hopefully you, like your spouse, but it's also scary, no matter what it's scary, and it did cause issues in our marriage. I don't want to say it with no caveat, but it's also scary, no matter what it's scary, and it did cause issues in our marriage. So I don't want to like say it with no caveat, but that was a huge advantage because it's two people that really care about each other, that are pushing the same direction and it directly benefits. And then we can talk about it even when we're at home, which also has a drawbacks, but that was a big piece. But those first couple of years we didn't have a real culture, because you have like three, four, five people and it's really hard to create culture. And so first real employee I hired, even though we hired a few more after that. He left after one year of training him like every day, day in and day out, for all the time.
Speaker 2:30:54
I essentially ended up having to take that as a big gut punch and I wanted to him and I wanted to blame everybody else, but until I took full responsibility for that, I couldn't move forward and I couldn't actually make a culture that I would want to be part of. So now it's. There's a lot more things of like trying to create culture and telling our people that that's important and making things that are cool for them and trying to make something of substance and building training into our team, so like there's a reason to stay around and this place develops its people. So, but that took a while and I had to. I came up with like a internal motto around champion the underdog and we put it up on the wall and we put it on shirts and you know we talk about smaller businesses competing. We've always appreciated smaller businesses and really like wanted to be part of like the local hometown hero winning, you know, and so we still have.
Speaker 2:31:52
Most of our clients are not PE owned. A lot of our clients are small businesses. A lot of them are competing at a higher level and have an unfair advantage in the marketplace, and we take pride in being scrappy and being resourceful in our marketing. I think that, as a business owner, creating culture was really hard, and I think now even still it's hard. It's hard because I want to tell my team exactly why they should buy in.
Speaker 2:32:22
But if I'm not fully bought in, so lately something that relates to this two or three years in challenge has been like the law of the lid oh yes. Of like, oh yes, if I'm not growing as a human being, if I'm not actually getting better and kind of like taking uncomfortable steps to improve as a leader, then my people are going to not buy in either. Like, if I'm not bought in, why would I expect them to be bought in so lately? It's been a little bit around like trying to make moves that would make me better as a leader, even though they are sometimes really hard, and so I think that that's the current challenge. The current challenge is wanting my team to be all in and learning that I have to be a little bit more all in.
Speaker 2:33:12
Because at a certain point, it's like we have so many good things happening right, there's momentum, and like as a business owner, I could kind of like I could rest a little. I could rest a little. Come on, I mean, I'm not just saying rest, but I'm saying like kind of loosen up on my why you know what I mean. Like it's going to be really hard to transfer that to my team. So that's the big challenge. Now there's been so many other ones right, Like during COVID, we had like employees leaving at a pace that was really disconcerting.
Speaker 2:33:47
You know, we improved our employee experience a lot, but it tends to be around that a lot, but it tends to be around that it tends. Now the challenges are it tends to be around like improving the employee experience, which also, in turn, improves the client experience, because there's more of that operational memory. We remember the challenge from three years ago, so we're actually getting better at a much faster pace. And so it's kind of on me indirectly to make the client experience better by making the, by making the employee experience better, which is it's a lot of work actually, and I think there's no limit to how good that could get from my point of view.
Speaker 1:34:31
Oh no, that's a great. That's a great point. So, caring about your team. One thing that Emily said in one of our meetings was you know we got to decide are we going to be customer forward or client or team member forward? Because sometimes when you're trying to make decisions for the company like how does this impact our customers and how does it impact our team Making sure that we're remembering those things when we're making long term decisions for our companies is really important to keep us you know, just to keep us on on target for what we're trying to accomplish as a company.
Speaker 1:35:02
So you don't want to be held hostage by your team, but you also need to know how to keep a team and retain talent, and a lot of that's hard. You know a lot. I've also heard, like, sometimes who the people that are on your team that get you to three million are not the ones that'll get you to five, or not the ones that'll get you to ten, and so that's an interesting statement as well, but you know scaling like I'm not about, I'm not a pushover when it comes to team either.
Speaker 2:35:25
Like, we fire, you know like, and but it's like, it's like the high performance team, like sports team, mindset, it like, but the people that are here have it pretty good, and then we trim the fat. You know, like, and I do think that that's you can always double down on the existing team and make the experience better if you do trim the fat, which you can't, if you hold on to all the like C players.
Speaker 1:35:51
Yes, absolutely, no, absolutely. And you know scaling I was just about to say you know it's it's about more than just getting more leads right. It's about better leadership, better systems, staying connected to your mission, vision and core values and like putting processes and things in place, and that's that's where scaling comes in. It's just managing the people and managing the fun, as I say. So all right. Well, listen, tim, if people wanted to get to know more about you and like what it would be like to work with Hook Agency, how would you like for them to reach out for you? Any exciting things coming up for you guys?
Speaker 2:36:23
Yeah, I'd love it if you connect with me at facebookcom, slash Tim Hook Agency, tim Hook Agency or just Google Tim Hook, and then my Facebook will come up. Or check out hookagencycom. But yeah, big things coming up. Well, it's a secret, but we've got a book coming out later this summer. Oh love, don't tell anyone, don't tell anyone. It's called how to Become a Hometown Hero a powerful guide to home services marketing, and it has 28 different takes from business owners as far as how to build connection, deep connection with the community, and to leverage emotion and persuasion to have much better marketing. So it's kind of on the more emotionally persuasive side of marketing and no one needs to, no one should know about it yet. But I just just for your audience to want to hear that it is coming, you know, come out August 1st.
Speaker 1:37:26
Awesome, Well, congratulations. I know that those are definitely a labor of love there. Yes, Well, guys, I just want well. First of all, Tim, thank you so much. Like marketing changes fast and, but when you partner with people that help you lead and navigate those strategies and help you stay committed contractors, you will win and you will stay relevant and just stay in the game. Keep your head down, trust your vendors. But, Tim, thanks for hanging out with me today from talking websites, SEO to leadership. I think it was a great talk today.
Speaker 2:38:02
So I just want to reiterate for your audience. I just want to note like we believe in what you guys do.
Speaker 2:38:06
It's a very, very important position in the market that you know you guys are such. You guys are kind of a unicorn in the marketing world where you're like this guide that is helping people to do it better. You're not just trying to like do everything in house or whatever. You're creating this ability to own their marketing and to me that is extremely honorable, very, very and difficult, I'm sure, but I just want to say I really enjoyed that. I think you guys, you guys are so needed for home service businesses and so we really appreciate knowing you and get to work, getting to work with you on stuff and, as we have more overlapping clients, I just think we're really grateful to be um part of your community as well.
Speaker 1:38:54
Well, thank you so much. You are so kind and it is a blessing and it is a challenge, but we're always up for it. So well, thank you again, Tim, for being on here and, to my listeners, if we would love for you to leave us a review, make sure you're following us on all of our social media channels and thank you for listening to another episode. We will talk to you soon. Thanks for sipping lemonade with us. Bye.
