Heating Up the Market: Rory Krueger on Geothermal, Growth, and a Brand Refresh
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Brand Refresh and Strong Identity
10:52
Investing in Branding and Operations
24:37
Family Business Success Strategies
Unlock the secrets of successful rebranding and family business dynamics with our esteemed guest, Rory Krueger. Rory shares his transformative journey of steering a Missouri-based family-owned business from being a mechanical contractor to a company that resonates deeply with homeowners, embracing the charm of old-fashioned values. Discover how Krueger's strategic brand refresh, with elements like wood grain siding on their trucks, plays a pivotal role in reflecting their core values and enhancing community visibility. This episode promises to impart valuable lessons on creating a compelling brand story that not only captures the essence of your business but also forges lasting emotional connections with your customers.
Venture with us into the world of branding and operations investment, where we explore the powerful impact of consistent brand presentation and strategic marketing. Learn why branding is more than just aesthetics—it's the enduring face of your company. Additionally, we delve into the intricate workings of family-run businesses, sharing personal anecdotes and strategies for maintaining harmonious relationships while building wealth together. From defining clear roles to fostering mutual respect, gain actionable insights into navigating the unique dynamics of family business success. Whether you're aiming for a brand refresh or seeking robust business strategies, this episode is rich with insights to help fortify your business foundation.
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Speaker 1: 0:00
All right, what's up? Lemonheads, welcome to another episode of From the Yellow Chair. I'm Crystal and today I'm sitting down. I have to say he's one of my most favorite yet ornery, yet fun clients here at Lemon Seed. I met him back in the day when we were working as a McWilliams Son with Service Nation Guys so much fun, a fun family, a fun brand. I can't wait for you to hear about some of the cool things that he's done there in Missouri doing cool things for the heating, air conditioning and geothermal world. So grab a lemonade, settle in. Let's discuss some cool ways about brand refreshes, the importance of strong brand identity and even driving success in both your business and family. Let's sip some lemonade.
Speaker 1: 1:01
All right, guys, listen, this is going to be quite the episode. There's lots of attitude and personality on this call. So let me just go ahead and tell you. But Rory Kruger is no stranger to the Lemon Seed family Again, one of our favorites around here. But he had some great stuff going on and we just thought he'd be a great episode guest for us. And I said hey, rory, so what would you like for me to call you today? What's your job title? And he said head bottle washer at Kruger in Springfield Missouri.
Speaker 2: 1:29
So I was like okay, almost got to do the dishes.
Speaker 1: 1:31
Absolutely so, roy. Why should anyone listen to what you have to say today?
Speaker 2: 1:39
You know, Crystal, it all comes down to. You know, anything I'm going to say it's already been said. It's just whether or not it's relevant. We're a small, family-owned and operated business in the southwest corner of the state of Missouri, but I've been in this trade for 30 years. I've rubbed the elbows with Charlie Greer, Ron Smith, Matt Michelle, and it's those collective holes of time spent with industry pillars. And I cataloged it Mindy calls it my reams and reams of useless information.
Speaker 1: 2:13
Well but, you guys have had good success there and you and Mindy work in the business together.
Speaker 2: 2:18
We do, we do. She is actually primary owner here. A little known fact. We're registered as a WBE or Women in Business Enterprise. Her father retired from one of our local supply houses after 50 years in the heating and air conditioning department. I actually knew him before I knew her.
Speaker 1: 2:35
Oh, wow.
Speaker 2: 2:36
Yeah.
Speaker 1: 2:37
I love that. I love that for you guys. Well, I love what you guys are doing there. I know you are pretty well known yourself in the industry. You lead some leadership calls and company calls for Service Nation and everybody that listens to this, listens to my podcast, very often knows how much of a fan I am of Service Nation just good business coaching all the way around. So I thought today we could talk a little bit about the power of a brand refresh. So you know, I know that when you came to Lemon Seed, you guys still had this great name Kruger, but you were really looking for more of an identity, maybe something that really differentiated you guys. So what did you? What kind of got you to a place of thinking that you guys needed to give it a fresh look?
Speaker 2: 3:23
Well, we had. We had been around for 15, 20 years at the time and Kruger was certainly not a non-known name. We had grown more by referral than we had anything else. We actually started business as a mechanical contractor. Of course, when you say mechanical to a homeowner, that doesn't vibe. We would typically you know, you'd typically get phone calls for automotive repair or RV air conditioning.
Speaker 2: 3:51
So it was just time to be able to think about what in the world of standing out, or what did our brand really, how did our brand fit? What we had become over 20 years of being in business and that was a great conversation with yourself and Emily and, at the time, mckenna. It was what was Kruger, who was it? And not just a name, but what was their culture? And it was old-fashioned values, old-fashioned service. I think Mindy was the one, ultimately, who said what does our brand look like? And our brand looks like, if you envision a picture, was a Norman Rockwell painting. And that's where Emily, in the graphic design side of you, your partner in lemon seed, that's where she came up with with our wood grain siding on our trucks for our truck wraps and that's become synonymous. It's on our uniforms. It's on our uniforms. It's everything we've done.
Speaker 1: 4:49
We've got our, you know, herma wood grain siding there, so well, and you know branding is storytelling, just using, you know, the visual side of like truck wraps and logos and uniforms and things like that. But, like you hit on two really cool points. So number one is like how does your brand make people feel and does it reiterate what you are actually, as a company, doing internally? And if you again, people that listen to me quite often know I can really get on my soapbox about these shelved, like pre-created brands that I see like people just turning out right now and I love a good story. So, yes, visually branding is super important. How it looks and how it reads and all of those things are very important.
Speaker 1: 5:31
But at the end of the day and it sounds kind of corny, you know, not everybody jumps on board with this, but a brand is how you are, how are people engaging with it, like in their everyday environments, and so does it make them feel nostalgic, which is that whole Norman Rockwell reference that you made, or is it more of you know?
Speaker 1: 5:52
Do you want to be considered innovative and edgy? And so I really was proud of you guys because you really took a step back and was like, okay, how do we really want to make people feel about our company. So, I'll be honest, limit Seeds design team we can make anything look great. We just want to make people feel about our company. So, I'll be honest, lemonside's design team we can make anything look great. We just want to have like some motion behind it. You know, some energy and some thoughts and you guys took your time. Some contractors will rebrand, like build up a new brand in you know three weeks, but you guys really thought through it and took a lot of time to kind of make your decisions. But I think that that's because y'all, naturally, are thinking past a pretty logo, you know, and it really had to reflect who you guys are.
Speaker 2: 6:32
That is so true, crystal, because again, people do they. Oh well, this is cool, it's neat, it's flashy. You know nothing against the mascots that are out there, because a mascot will a mascot. If it fits your brand, then it fits. If it does not fit your brand, don't try and force the mascot thought process.
Speaker 2: 6:50
And we did, we tried, and that's where you said, we took our time really back and forth in just what was it, what fit? And then ultimately it was the lemon, you know the, the lemon seed vibe, with the wood grain siding. Um, our tagline, um, much to mckenna's chagrin, stuck which was keep calm, call krugercom. Uh, and it fit, and it went on the side of the truck and it fit the wrap and it fit the brand and it fit everywhere else. Um, it's just easy to have that flow. Um, because I think again, people sometimes they get caught up in flashy or catchy and then or trendy, very trendy. Uh, you know one of the groups I moderate for, um service nation and people going through brand refresh there, and it was, you know, one of them is being worked on it, uh, worked on a little bit, um, and it was like if you put that on the side of a van and the van drives down the road at 65 miles an hour.
Speaker 2: 7:51
Can you read it? Because if you can't read it, which his graphic design that he was showing me, you couldn't have read and it was just like I won't be able to read it. I won't be able to see it. I won't remember it, um, because that's what you've got. You've got two to five able to see it. I won't remember it, um, because that's what you've got. You've got two to five seconds to see the side of a truck, or to see a billboard, or to see an ad mobile. Um, and so many times it's it again. It's trendy, it's, it's some fancy script. You know font, um, and it's just like, sometimes simple or it's a better plan, it's just like sometimes simpler is a better plan.
Speaker 1: 8:25
And again, you know our job I feel like our job is marketing people and is branding people, is to collaborate. Ok, so the best brands normally are just they're not always, they don't always look the prettiest. So, you know, our job is to collaborate and literally pull that story out. So every single person, every single contractor, has some sort of story, some sort of hook in their life that we can connect to, to build a brand around One of the.
Speaker 1: 8:53
I have two stories that I tell quite often. One of them is you know, we had a client comes on board and I'm like, oh, this is a unique name, so tell me where you got this. And so I mean, it was, it was unique enough that I'm like did you grow up on that street, did you? You know what? Where did you get this name? And he goes, oh, just, random name generator. So I was like random name generator.
Speaker 1: 9:14
So, you know, we had to literally go curate a story around something that wasn't even indicative of that person, that person's history, their lifestyle, nothing. And then right now I'm working with a business consultant that helps contractors when they're getting ready to sell their businesses, and so he reached out to us to help him refresh and I said, well, tell me a little bit about it. And so I was like, oh, okay, so we're going to focus on adventure. And you know, he looked at me for a minute and he said I've never thought of it that way. I'm like this guy does a bunch of cool stuff. So, you know, when you're building a new brand as I keep going back to that wood grain that you mentioned it's little things entwined in your story and entwined in your look and your logos and your truck wraps that people identify with. Like you said, that wood grain piece that those of us that don't live there, we might have been like, oh, that's a unique look, but it's what is it? It's become your identifier there. It's what you guys are known.
Speaker 2: 10:09
I think it's really starting to separate you guys, for yeah, I mean again, if, if, if somebody goes to our call krugercom website, you'll see that brand, you'll see the truck wrap again and understand that everything you see visually from the Kruger brand you know is a lemon seed concept and it wasn't just an overnight process. It was working with Emily, working with your creative design team, to be able to go. What does this look like? And the tweaks, every little piece we've done yard signs or the web banner that you'll see the webpage Again. How do we move some of that around to make sure that the brand continuity is all there and that's you know, I think people listening here.
Speaker 2: 10:52
If you're fearful of the investment in hiring, like a lemon seed to do a brand refresh, don't be fearful because it is a huge investment. It is the face of your company that will be forevermore. And so you decide to find somebody online who doesn't do branding, who doesn't do anything else. There are tons of those websites I'm sure that I've heard of that'll do logo design, but it's like where's their success story? And it doesn't take long to look around Lemon Seed's website and their portfolio of work done and some of the iconic and epic brands they have created. So it is an investment that is so worth every penny.
Speaker 1: 11:38
Well, you know, what do you think on the investment side? So, of course, the investment in building the brand. But what about operationally? What are some things that maybe you guys had to do operationally to prepare? So I try to prepare our contractors like, OK, we have checklists, we have a launch guide. You know, we have all these things to try to help people. And if you're changing your company name, that's a whole different ballgame. But let's just say you're like a lot of people and you're just going to refresh everything. Where did you and Mindy start? Was it wrapping vehicles? Was it uniforms? And like what was that investment? Kind of looking like.
Speaker 2: 12:09
Yeah, so are you asking the dollars and cents question?
Speaker 1: 12:13
No, you don't really have to. I'm more looking in a grand scheme of things, like you know, cause this is what a lot of contractors will tell me, like oh, I have to wrap every vehicle, you know and you don't.
Speaker 2: 12:26
Yeah, that's just it. Okay, so guided me in the right direction here. So when, when we, when we first started, like I said, we were a mechanical um and and we started back in the in the nineties, early, two thousands um, you know, wraps weren't a thing. Uh, the, the branding that we see today wasn't a thing, um. So what did we do? Do? It actually started with our printer of all places, and they did my business cards. They were a blue linen business card with a foil embossed logo on them which was actually just Tiffany ITC font. But they did that.
Speaker 2: 12:56
And then, so what did we do? We said, well, let's just buy a blue truck. And so I did. I went and bought a blue truck and then my sign guy said I can do that. You know, today you go buy a white truck and you wrap it, but you wrap the entire thing.
Speaker 2: 13:14
I think the infamous Matt and Michelle said anything but a white truck, I don't care what color it is, please do not drive a white truck with your name on the side of it. And so it was. So it was wrapped, the whole thing. And so the iconic blue obviously people can't see my shirt here, but my blue with the Kruger logo has been Kruger blue since day one, um and and. So we incorporated that in a wrap, um, and and it, just so that the investment was the wrap, because that's the outward visual.
Speaker 2: 13:47
Um, you know, uh, my son, who also now works here, uh, um, you know, he says people don't see where I live, but they see what I drive. So they may not see your shop, they may not see your website, but they may. They're going to see your truck and they're going to see your truck parked in your neighbor's driveway. They're going to see your truck parked at the grocery store, hopefully at the mall. It's shopping time, guys, why not take the vehicle and park it in a prominent place so that people can see your brand coming and going? But that was the investment, and it was. It was an investment in uniforms and getting everybody on board, but it didn't happen all at once and it doesn't have to, and I think that's people's again. You get a little nervous about oh, I've got to do all of this at once.
Speaker 1: 14:30
You don't, yeah, and a lot of people. You know this sounds very harsh, but it's just the truth of it. Odds are, I can tell you. So I see plenty of large revenue producing companies that have terrible logos. Okay. So, contrary to what most marketers kind of want to put out in the streets here, I firmly believe that marketing is just a tool in your bag of tricks to be a successful operator. What really moves needles and what really differentiates companies is operators People that are operating companies, that are building efficient processes, that are driving revenue, that are taking care of their team, that are putting a good brand out there a good little combination of those things. And so sometimes we get paralyzed with the idea that we can't refresh our look because, well, my grandpa did this and he's known us for 50 years, correct? But sometimes a refresh of the brand reinvigorates the brand and it adds a whole nother. Just buzz around your town with a new look and a new feel.
Speaker 1: 15:31
People that do mascots. I always ask one question If you're going to do a mascot, you're going to be actively involved in physically being a part of things. So if you're going to add a mascot but you're not willing to go be in Christmas parades and be at downtown festivals and celebrate sports teams winning and be silly and be fun and take that mascot out into the public. It's really not worth creating this character, because we're creating a character that really helps people identify closer with your brand. So if they never interact with a character, it's kind of a mute point. So I always encourage people like you said, not every company is perfect for a mascot.
Speaker 2: 16:08
No, it's not. And again. But you go back to the brand story and that's you know. We had the pleasure of hanging out in Charlotte at a summit earlier this year and that was one of my opening discussions with the group is is what is your brand story? Where did you start? What's your foundation? Because people will buy you. They will buy the story long before they buy the box, will buy the story long before they buy the box. But we get so focused on the oval or the choo-choo or the whatever else it is. It's about the box and the box is really an inanimate object. So it's really buying the brand. But that starts with that story. So set down, where did you start? How did you get going?
Speaker 2: 16:49
That's relevant to so many people, and especially in today's age. I mean you can order an 85 inch big screen television, have it delivered in 48 hours or less to your front door. Now, there's no personality in that, there's no surface in that, it's just the worldwide web. But you know it's like I didn't like to tell the story and it says on May 22nd 1927, my grandfather, frank Kubik, stepped foot on Ellis Island from Czechoslovakia at the age of 16. He put himself through college at Notre Dame, graduated the top of his class and went to Indiana University to do his degree in medicine. So I'm sitting here as a second-generation person from somebody who immigrated from another country, and I'm sitting here on this podcast being able to hang out with you. It's a story and everybody has one, so let's create your brand story.
Speaker 1: 17:39
Absolutely and tell it you know and not be afraid of it. So you know, I love that and we're passionate about branding. But then you have to take that brand and you have to actually implement it and start doing things with it. And so you know remember those of you that are listening so much of your actual market is not even in the consideration phase of using your services. So people don't need us all the time for heating and air conditioning, plumbing, electrical roofing, whatever we're doing.
Speaker 1: 18:04
Those of us that are in the home service, we live a long game right. We are constantly running marathons to keep up with people in our market, just for that one time that they need us or those couple of times that they need us. And so lots of tools, lots of techniques, but that brand makes it either make your life easier or harder. If you have a good brand, it makes your life a lot easier when it comes to just doing things to keep you top of mind. When you have a terrible brand or a very low interest brand of things that don't have a lot of personality, it's just harder. You have to work harder to keep up with people that have a cool look or whatever's going on.
Speaker 1: 18:41
So it's just an encouragement to contractors. Like, most of the time probably 75 to 80 percent of the time that I talk to new contractors they need to refresh their brand. I mean, you know why? It's because you got started right. A lot of you got started just by being a good technician, decided to go out on your own. You didn't want to think about it, so you called it. You know crystals, heating and air conditioning, and now you're a $5 million company like, uh, I probably should do something different than this and uh, so you know, don't be afraid of it. So I love that story and I think it's really the refresh has really worked well for you guys.
Speaker 2: 19:15
Well, good, good.
Speaker 1: 19:17
Anything you regret or something you might would have done different.
Speaker 2: 19:22
You know I wish it had happened faster, as we've talked about. It didn't take. It took a while and it was painful, particularly on you guys, because it's it's one of of those things I knew when we saw the brand come together I knew that was it. But we went through some radiations of what we wanted. We went down the mascot route and nothing stuck. It wasn't sticking and so it was some of the things we had done, because don't think that because you're doing a brand refresh, that means throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Speaker 2: 20:00
You can keep good stuff if you have good stuff. And the reality is, as Crystal, you well know, there are a lot of people that don't have good stuff. It's just what they're comfortable with. Right For us. We don't have a maintenance program. We don't have a maintenance program. We don't have a service program. We don't have a spring or fall tune-up program. We have the Kruger Concierge Service Program. Why? Because people want to be taken care of like family and if you've ever stayed at a good hotel with a concierge that takes care of those little needs the restaurant reservations, the show tickets that's important to people Again, and then that was part of our brand story was we're just going to take care of you like family, and so we didn't throw it away. We kept it and it's worked really well and people go. I like that, you know. It makes me feel comfortable. It's a differentiator.
Speaker 1: 20:48
It's a differentiator. So you know, maintenance clubs are used for consistent business, and so you guys created just a different take on that. And so there's lots of again. This is. It reiterates the point even more. Every single company I don't care what anybody tells you, every single company has their own unique, like a fingerprint, their own unique place in the market. It's just about discovering it and honing in on it and learning from it and then using your marketing and branding skills to then be a great operator. It really is a great way to to differentiate yourself with a it.
Speaker 1: 21:26
Just again I go back to, this is a process that is a marathon, not a sprint. So some people are well. And now I'll tell you another thing. When you find entrepreneurs that know what they're doing, they've had really good success. They can start from there, start opening all kinds of stuff. So you know, if the, let's say, they rebranded a heating, air conditioning and they sold it, the next thing you know they're offering they're opening their own plumbing, electrical roofing, landscaping, pest control. Because once you learn the strategy of top of mind awareness and you figure out cashflow to do that, you'll see them just popping up things and all of a sudden they're $5 million in their second year of business and people are like I just don't know how people really push their revenue and I'm like it's an operator thing. It's a good understanding of how to push and motivate, so it's very interesting.
Speaker 1: 22:08
So, okay, another thing I wanted to step into which is this is a little different is you guys have a geothermal push. We do Okay, so it's just a little different and so sometimes I always am like heating and air conditioning and things like that. But the geothermal side how do you guys educate clients? How have you coached your team? What do you think you have to do a little differently to keep geothermal education up?
Speaker 2: 22:32
Yeah, so we've come at the geothermal or ground source heat pump world simply from an energy savings standpoint. Is there an environmental standpoint? 750 trees saved, one fossil fuel car taken off the road? Absolutely, we've been at this over 20 years so we have certainly become the predominant player in Southwest Missouri. We have a multitude of other companies who are brand aware in Springfield who make referrals to us for geo because it is a specialty and it is something that takes a specific skill set.
Speaker 2: 23:07
I will challenge any HVAC contractor out there that they too can be a geothermal expert, because it is not rocket science, it's just a specific skill set and training to do that.
Speaker 2: 23:17
But what it's done is it's isolated us into that high performance world of HVAC and so it is ductwork testing, it is blower door testing, it is air leakage testing. It's all of those things that revol revolve around, you know, a total energy portfolio in a home and when you say, hey, I'm going to live in a, in a 3500 square foot house and I have a sub $100 a month total electric bill, and then your neighbor who lives in the exact same house goes my bill is four to $600. You know, we're saving. We're saving a ton of money because it's positive cash flow, it's just a money saving thing and it's a life cycle thing for us. So it's there's no outdoor units with geothermal, so, um, you can put your deck anywhere, you can have your master bedroom door anywhere. Uh, and people once they see that it's just kind of like oh this is great. I'm building building on acreage and that's the last thing I needed was a place to stick my crazy air conditioner outside.
Speaker 1: 24:15
So yeah, yeah, and I just think like I like the unique side of that, mainly because you know it just takes intentionality of making sure that you're promoting those products. You know correctly that you're educating customers but also like educating your own team on the traditional side of HVAC but then of course the geothermal side, and I know sometimes it can be challenging when I'm knowing my notes here. It said that you helped install this in like one of these huge house. There was some kind of little story. You had to go along with this.
Speaker 2: 24:45
Well, so we're southwest Missouri. A little bit south of us it's a little town called Branson. In between, there is one of the 10th largest homes in the world. It's took over 72,000 square feet, which is the size of your average Walmart super center, by the way. But the gentleman who built the home had a technology for a reinforced, insulated ICF block that could withstand bomb blasts. Is where the technology came from.
Speaker 2: 25:17
But then they thought about that and he said well, what about a school? What about a school in Tornado Alley? What about health centers? What about building infrastructure that is potentially subject to damage? Well, the reality is is he had built this product, but he didn't have it in application. You know, you've got it on a drawing board. And so he said well, why don't we just build a living laboratory and demonstrate what the possibility is of this product? So that's what he did, and so he built the Pensmore Castle is the name of the property, pensmore and he said I want to do this and I want to heat and cool it really efficiently too. It is very ultra insulated, obviously, and so we heat and cool all of that space with only 40 tons of geothermal. But it was an engineering feat a lot of piping, a lot of pumping a lot of pumps, I should say but ultimately, you know, it turned out to be a very great project to work on.
Speaker 1: 26:21
I love that. Well, you know I'm a fan of Branson.
Speaker 2: 26:23
Yes, my little.
Speaker 1: 26:25
East Texas heart loves Branson, Missouri. I call it Jesus Vegas. It is it is, and my kids love it. So I tell this story quite often. We were out in the middle of the ocean on a beautiful cruise going to Costa Maya and there's my kids in a hot tub little you know, fake drinks in their hands and they're like Mom, when are we going to Branson again? And I'm like, oh my gosh, you know, but my kids love sight and sound theater.
Speaker 2: 26:54
They love the racetracks.
Speaker 1: 26:54
They are the little go-kart racing and stuff like that. So I have a heart for Branson, but beautiful country. But I love that story too because you know I think it's important that we tout sometimes like some cool stuff that we've done for our companies and for our products. And you know I've talked to a couple of contractors that have installed things in famous people's homes and you know there's something kind of fun like your team can celebrate that and it's a cool accomplishment. So, all right, rory, I'm going to ask the last few questions, and it's more about working in the business with your family, and you've mentioned a couple of times you've had a couple of family members that work with you. You know, what do you think the secret is? To let's just stay married and working together and then, just like you know, building wealth together. What does that look like for you guys? Maybe some tips and advice.
Speaker 2: 27:41
Well so good friends of mine, justin Kristen Dees, they wrote a book. You know. Well so good friends of mine, justin Kristen Dees, they wrote a book. You know, when your Business Partner Is your Spouse Obviously that's a newer bookes the office side and she oversees the financial side and the dispatch side, working with CSRs, and it's very much we stay in our lanes.
Speaker 2: 28:12
It doesn't mean that we don't discuss everything as a family, because we do, but it's very much. This is my task, this is my job. If I need advice or want advice or want help, um, which I do, um and encourage people to do that, uh, you know, one of the things I do, uh, you know, an annual basis is probably read north of 40 books, um, and so it's, what do you spend in your time with Um? And? And we share that openly and with, even within our team, and it's, you know, one of the sayings our team will say is a year from now, two things will have changed the people you spent time with and the books you've read. So choose the people very, very wisely.
Speaker 2: 28:51
And so it is. It's being able to put those people in the right seats in the right bus and it works. Does it work well all the time. Nope, I think everybody would call me a fool or a liar if I said it worked well all the time. Everybody would call me a fool or a liar if I said it worked well all the time. But it really did help to be very decisive in what our roles are at Kruger.
Speaker 1: 29:12
Well, and you know I say that. You know I grew up working for my dad and my brother, my grandpa, my aunt, and you know, you just have to understand who's who. Right, like you're saying. You know who's who. So people say you work for your brother. Well, I don't have to be the boss. Now, listen, anybody that knows me knows I'm a little bossy, so that's you know, not me talking to him and bossy. I know it shocks everyone, but literally started the podcast so I could talk to myself, but at the end of the day, I had to come to the conclusion that, like, trey was the boss and so at the end of the day, I had to take yes or no. He was collaborative, but somebody had to be the final decision maker.
Speaker 2: 29:55
And so this concept that, oh, we can all collaborate, and work together is a good way to stall progress.
Speaker 1: 29:57
So just kind of going in who's the boss and it doesn't even matter. People that chase titles normally can't earn them through action. So that's always a hard thing for me, like if you've got to tell me that you're the boss, you're probably not. It's about earning, you know, the respect of each other. But it still can take a toll.
Speaker 1: 30:15
I know one time Emily was even telling me one time she said you know one of the things that was hard because she and her husband had, you know, real graphics, a print and design company before she came over and worked with me at Limitsy. And they still have real graphics. Just he runs that. But she was telling me one time. She said, man, a hard conversation is when your husband is trying to decide between who's right or wrong me or this other person, you know and she's like those could be some hard knots, but I think they have really good respect for one another and you know you have to have a business mindset. It can be definitely a challenge, rory. Anything else I always like to ask this question too at the end. If there's a contractor listening to this, that's very much like they're new, they're green and they're ready to take off with their business less than a million dollars. What are a couple pieces of advice that you would give them?
Speaker 2: 31:04
I would give them the advice to sit down and write your brand story out. I would, second, pick up the book the E-Myth by Michael Gerber and read the E-Myth and make sure you're not living the E-Myth which is we're entrepreneurs and we're doing a technician's job and suddenly we hang a shingle and here we go and then we get caught up in being a technician and trying to run a business and we forget, oh, where that brand story was. And we get busy and, like you said, sub-million bucks, and that's where everybody gets stuck usually. So, brand story e-myth to find your focus and put some goals on the wall. Where are you going? Because we wouldn't.
Speaker 2: 31:44
When we all drive with GPS now, we used to drive with these things called atlases or maps. Some of us are old enough to remember those. But you didn't just get in the car and head west. That's a movie. You had a destination and you knew how you were going to get there. So you're in a spot. Now You're going to grow.
Speaker 2: 32:00
What does it look like in six months? What does it look like in a year? What does it look like in 18 months? And start planning that and you might all again, we're all contractors doing contract-y stuff. Ask for help. Find somebody to talk to. You know a lot of groups, a lot of groups out there. I've had a lot of luck with Service Nation, but it's just find a group. Find somebody to mentor you, to guide you, because there are people much like myself, who are an open book and saying I've done that that didn't work well, this is what it did do, this is why it worked well. So, find some help. And then, last and not least, know your numbers. I cannot stress enough how many contractors they. They got money in the bank, but they don't know how to price. They don't know, uh, where their cash position is. They don't know where break-even is for the year. You start mentioning their financials and they just blaze over like a deer in the headlights Um, but no, you have to know your operational numbers. There's just no way around it.
Speaker 1: 33:04
Yeah, math before marketing.
Speaker 2: 33:07
Math before marketing, exactly. But how do you? You know again, you can have a great brand. You can have a. You can hire Lemon Seed. They can do your brand refresh. They can do your complete brand. If you're sitting here going, you know what. We've been in business for a while and we're just not succeeding. A complete rebrand is not a bad thing, and you may have the cash to write that check, but you better know how you got the cash to begin with. So we don't want to. We don't want to have a great brand without the revenue goals or knowing what you need to do. So know your numbers.
Speaker 1: 33:38
Absolutely, and I love, note, knowing your numbers. Those are just key things. Now that I look back, you know, like man, even when I started limiting, like man, knowing our numbers would have been a lot. We should have known them differently and better. And so you know, I just think there's so much power in today's episode, like little nuggets that we've been pushing out. There are great for contractors that are just ready to go to the next level, whether that's you going from five to 10 million, 10 to 20 million, that's going from less than a million to your first million, wherever you are, in the grand scheme of things, these good marketing and business practices that we talked about do not waver, they do not change. The scale just becomes different. You know. So you know you should always be working on your brand. You should always know your numbers. You should always be seeking wise counsel. You should always be constantly focused on the business, not in the business. As much and so well. Rory, thank you so much for visiting with me today.
Speaker 2: 34:28
No problem, thanks for having me. It's always good to sit in your little chair and drink some lemonade.
Speaker 1: 34:32
Oh well, there we go. There we go, and listeners. If you've been thinking about a refresh for your brand or exploring new ways to market your business, I encourage you to visit LemonSeedMarketingcom and see how we can help you strategize and build out a brand story. And also, don't forget to check out Kruger and see their awesome wood grain look that they've got going on and some of the really cool things that they do. So thank you for listening to From the Yellow Chair. If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a review. Make sure you're following us. Thanks for sipping some lemonade. We'll see you next time.
